turtledovefandomcom-20200216-history
Talk:Powerless
So that was as short turnaround from sale to publication date. TR (talk) 20:17, July 1, 2018 (UTC) A Communist California? This should be interesting. I wonder if the story will be set in either an alternate history setting where the Commies won the Cold War or if this is set in the future where California has become too Liberal for its own good. --JCC the Alternate Historian (talk) 12:35, July 2, 2018 (UTC) :The former, based on the link. TR (talk) 14:18, July 2, 2018 (UTC) ::I wonder if it is set in the alternate of ''The Gladiator''. Or maybe this will be a Turtledove trope, "Reds Win Cold War, Whole World is Communized".JonathanMarkoff (talk) 10:16, July 3, 2018 (UTC) :::I doubt it's in TGlad world. It might "fit in" to TGlad the way that "The Last Article" "fits in" to ItPoME, but it won't be an official part of that timeline. I also doubt that HT will get too deep into the particulars of the POD. The summary, as written, suggests that California is its own little socialist republic, not part of the US. :::Of course one of the quirks of the publishing world is that people who write summaries about stories don't always read the stories they are summarizing. TR (talk) 17:07, July 3, 2018 (UTC) ::::Indeed. One of the Jerry Pournelle There Will Be War volumes, coming out in 1986, featured a Turtledove story. The author thumbnail bio advertised his upcoming novel about one of Julius Caesar's Roman Legions transporting ahead in time to the Byzantine Empire during the reign of some historical Emperor and even named which Emperor this was. ::::If California is indeed a separate nation in this new story, that could be another trope, given that the Republic of California played a reasonable role in The Disunited States of America. In OTL, didn't Californian independence last for something like 15 minutes?JonathanMarkoff (talk) 21:08, July 3, 2018 (UTC) :::::25 days, but still a blink in the eye of the universe. TR (talk) 21:21, July 3, 2018 (UTC) Backup author Turtledove has top billing in this magazine. Sarina Dorie is one of the names mentioned below. She often hangs out with Nina Kiriki Hoffman, who is often next to HT in other publications.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 08:12, August 3, 2018 (UTC) :Good get on the cover. TR (talk) 16:13, August 3, 2018 (UTC) Available on E-book I just bought it. I'll report back when I have a moment to read. TR (talk) 15:20, August 20, 2018 (UTC) :Disregard. Amazon jumped the gun. It's not out yet. TR (talk) 15:52, August 20, 2018 (UTC) ::Ok, it's out for real this time. TR (talk) 15:13, September 1, 2018 (UTC) ::And it's really, really good. It's a story that definitely plays to Harry's preference for writing about the average person. And, even though it's about a communist authoritarian regime, it still feels quite timely. ::It isn't going to give us that much fodder or our project here, though. No historicals appear, and only the usual suspects are referenced in passing. There are some things we'll want to talk about before we create articles, since the US has been divided into some number of Stalinist states, but only three are referenced. On the plus side, the cover for the magazine does a pretty plausible if stylized depiction of the POV character. POD isn't clear at all; there are some broad clues but, much like TGlad, Harry was much more interested in a story about the Communist North America. ::Anyway, I'll wait a week or so before I do anything, let the hardcopy hit stands, give people a chance to read spoiler free, etc. I'll post spoilers here if anyone has questions. TR (talk) 18:14, September 1, 2018 (UTC) :::Is Sacramento a national capital?JonathanMarkoff (talk) 10:57, September 2, 2018 (UTC) ::::Yes. TR (talk) 15:28, September 2, 2018 (UTC) Well, if we already know that California is an independent Communist country and was one of the three mentioned, then what were the other two mentioned? --JCC the Alternate Historian (talk) 18:00, September 2, 2018 (UTC) TR (talk) 18:20, September 2, 2018 (UTC) :Different naming formats, eh? I wonder if that means rival factions within the Party. What's the relationship among them like? If I were in the Kremlin, I might want to keep them at each other's throats so no one can marshal all the resources of the old United States against me. Turtle Fan (talk) 03:39, September 3, 2018 (UTC) TR (talk) 04:41, September 3, 2018 (UTC) ::Maybe the Soviets invaded the US, forced them to surrender and annexed the Northeastern US as a puppet nation as war reparations? --JCC the Alternate Historian (talk) 14:35, September 3, 2018 (UTC) :::Could be. I may be over thinking things, too; the Chinese Soviet Republic (1931-1937) was a short lived state that wasn't related to the USSR. But the SSR name scheme for annexation follows the historical pattern after WWII. Lithuania was annexed and became the Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republic, whereas Poland was a satellite state and was called the Polish People's Republic. TR (talk) 16:34, September 3, 2018 (UTC) ::::Name didn't ring a bell until I did a quick Wikipedia search. Anyways, within the next few days to few weeks, we should probably start getting down all the information regarding Powerless. This includes creating new categories for the story and the characters appearing as well as updating articles for their appearances in the story. --JCC the Alternate Historian (talk) 14:15, September 4, 2018 (UTC) :::::Well, I'm going to start adding categories and such to locations that appeared in the story. I guess the best time to start is now before we forget all about it. --JCC the Alternate Historian (talk) 14:00, September 23, 2018 (UTC) :::::No you will not, because you've plainly not read the story and what you put in was wrong. We're NOT going to forget about it. TR (talk) 16:08, September 23, 2018 (UTC) ::::::What the Hell are you going on about TR!? I only put down what YOU mentioned in your spoiler post above. For example, you mentioned California was part of (or became) the West Coast People's Democratic Republic, that Virginia was part of the Southern Confederated People's Republic, and that Mexico became a Socialist republic. You also removed the Powerless category from the articles. Also, while it is true I haven't read the story, I can't read it because I don't have access to the magazine it appears in. If I got information wrong, then why didn't you fix it up? I was only trying to help and instead of thanking me for starting the Powerless sections on the articles, you're treating me like vermin! --JCC the Alternate Historian (talk) 19:50, September 24, 2018 (UTC) ::::::::You prefaced each and every article with "after the Cold War". I said in the above the POD is unclear, and speculated on the talk page. I put in the summary of the story that the POD is unclear. When an article is wrong from beginning to end, I can either frantically rewrite it, or I can delete, and come back and write from scratch when I'm ready to write articles. I'm also aware that I've removed the category. If we don't have the sub-section, then they don't need to be in the category either. TR (talk) 19:20, September 25, 2018 (UTC) ::::::By the way, I probably worded the "I guess the best time to start is now before we forget all about it" section wrong. I meant to say that it's probably the best time to get started on it. --JCC the Alternate Historian (talk) 19:55, September 24, 2018 (UTC) ::::::The story was published less than a month ago. Please relax. TR (talk) 19:20, September 25, 2018 (UTC) :::::::Alright then TR. Sorry about adding "after the Cold War" to the articles. I forgot that the story didn't have a specific POD. By the way, only the beginning of the sections on the articles were wrong, what the states/nations became were taken as I said before were from your spoiler post above. --JCC the Alternate Historian (talk) 15:05, September 26, 2018 (UTC) Interview in link I just linked a quickie interview at F&SF about this story. In addition to some mild spoilers about "Powerless", HT does acknowledge Alpha and Omega will likely land next year. TR (talk) 21:46, September 10, 2018 (UTC) Year setting For convenience, can we assume that this story takes place in 2018?Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 17:46, August 28, 2019 (UTC) :No. TR (talk) 00:53, August 29, 2019 (UTC)